Saturday, November 2
DARTMOOR DAY 1: Sat 7/9/2024 VIXEN TOR - FEATHER TOR-HECKWOOD TOR-PEW TOR
Family issues had meant that this was my first wildcamping trip this year.
Frustrating really as my exercise regime during the last few years had really benefitted my walking pace & pack carrying stamina.
Ho hum. Pay it forward, never a false economy in these, my advancing years.
But leaving it this late in the year meant that I wasn't over optimistic of stringing together many nights on the tops.
After the usual dreary drive across from Dorset, and a little exploratory reconnaissance, I loaded up at the car park west of Merrivale (GR 540 750)
A typically dreary start, with intermittent rain throughout the day.
A wander down to Vixen Tor (GR 541 742) for a looksee at just what "private land" offers.Ringed by barbwire (satisfyingly broken down in places) it presumes to be a jealously guarded spot mimicking some frontline battle line.
Which for many it still remains - being an early sign of things to come.
I originally mentioned it back in 2007 and 17 years later it remains deeply symbolic of the expanding conflict between private ownership and public access.
And to be honest, really not that great a spot to safeguard from the marauding hordes of drooling ramblers milling around the spot.
Well not really.
But at least the welcoming sign made me smile - best of luck enforcing!
Welcome to Vixen Tor
Onwards to tick off Feather Tor (534 741) .....
..
Feather Tor
....and its view onto Heckwood Tor (537 738) the next waypoint .....
Heckwood Tor
....where there was a suitably atmospheric glimpse of Great Mis Tor in the distance, a favourite overnight spot of mine with panoramic views down to the sea beyond Plymouth.
The leat and cross discovered along the way made a pleasant photo opportunity, initially suggesting a future wildcamping spot for a long hot sunny day. But it quickly became clear that this was a focal point for walkers in the area. Quickly crossed off my list - I prefer more solitary resting spots.
A short hop and already I was at the evening's camping spot Pew Tor (532 734)
4 tors ticked off in less than an hour - more a leg stretch than a walk. But after the early drive it was all I really required for a kit shakedown exercise.
Pew Tor
I wouldn't really consider any of these tors for a revisit, and certainly not for an overnighter.
From memory Pew Tor seemed quite popular with occasional visitors, with its proximity to the Merrivale car parks.But not anything that sticks in my memory as I write this now.Labels: dartmoor, Fitness, National Park, right to roam, vixen tor, wild camping
Wednesday, March 4
Vixen Tor - A Small Victory?
It was nearly a year ago, back in April 2008, when I last mentioned the access fight over Dartmoor's Vixen Tor.
News comes from Grough that Devon County Council have agreed that two routes to the Tor should become public rights of way (with a possible Appeal stage to go)
A small step forward. But an important one in such a long drawn out access rights campaign.
Wednesday, April 30
Vixen Tor - Action Update
I've previously written about the background to the continued abysmal access situation for Vixen Tor on Dartmoor, despite many efforts to get it resolved amicably.
News comes via the ever excellent Grough website that 200+ people attended a rally this weekend to demand access. A timely demonstration of support for a recent application to the County Council for Rights of Way to be established across the land.
An address from Ramblers’ Association chairman Kate Ashbrook underlines the seriousness of the backing this issue has.
Some kind soul has posted full contact details of the landowner.
I'd like to bet their phone's going to be busy at some inconvenient time or other. But perhaps this will just push the farmer concerned further into the bunker mentality that seems to have been so evident to date?
So perhaps not such a good idea, despite the obvious temptation?
Thursday, February 7
aRoundabout - outdoor news and views (Feb 7)
Unbowed by a backlash of utter indifferance, here's another weekly round-up for your entertainment.
New sites to check out?
Seb Green was 15 when as a result of his involvement in a boat theft he ended up stuck in mud in Fleet Lagoon late at night. Subsequently rescued (and charged) in the years since he's regretted his actions and on the 1st of February he started his walk around the coast of mainland UK to raise cash for charity to make amends to the local community.
The 18-year-old will spend nearly a year walking 5,821 miles with his border collie dog, Flash, camping as he goes. More details on his website
Outdoor News
That's the way to do it.........
In contrast to last week's report of ill prepared walkers and their involvement of various Mountain Rescue teams here's a happier report of a man showing real self reliance (thanks to Grough for this) Well done that man!
Wainwright Window Becomes Storm Victim
An appeal comes via the Online Fellwalking Club and The Wainwright Society to fund church repairs. Not normally something that would feature on here but the church in question is St. James in Buttermere. A small leaded window was battered by recent winter gales and is boarded up awaiting repair.
And the relevance?
Its the same window containing the memorial plaque to Wainwright, and that special view towards Haystacks. Target is around £1000 if you want to contribute.
News in March's Trail Magazine concerning the Vixen Tor campaign's new initiative based on the Highways Law (my background piece here) and a request for testimonials from anyone who can recall walking, climbing or just enjoying the site.
Whilst not of direct relevance to the E-Petition on the legal position of wildcamping in England & Wales (364 votes and building - is your name on it yet?) there are some useful lessons to be learnt from the campaign when looking at mounting and delivering change for outdoor access that relates to all of us. Whether we intend to use this spot or not.
And finally ......
Look to the skies. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Nope its Air Viagra.
An Israeli study of mountain climbers in Africa has identified a link between erectile dysfunction drugs and improved performance at high altitude. An active ingredient in the drugs helped climbers perform better where oxygen was at reduced levels. The study indicates this may be of assistance for jet fighter pilots.
Hopefully they will work out any unrequired side effects (Beware sudden ejections - lol) but maybe that explains the mass of Viagra spam targeted at us hardened outdoor types.
Meanwhile US scientists, not to be outdone, have built an adapted knee brace that generates energy from human movement ".....we can get as much as 13 watts from walking .. .... enough to power about 30 minutes of talk time on a typical mobile phone from just one minute of walking"
Great news for ubertechnowalkers. Possibly. But not looking too good for the ultralight brigade.Labels: blog media, dartmoor, Lake District, podcasts, vixen tor, Wales, YHA
Monday, August 13
Kinder Trespass person required - Apply Within. Vixen Tor a blight on CROW
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today? Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.
And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
All site material © John Hee - ask before you snatch
Family issues had meant that this was my first wildcamping trip this year.
Frustrating really as my exercise regime during the last few years had really benefitted my walking pace & pack carrying stamina.
Ho hum. Pay it forward, never a false economy in these, my advancing years.
But leaving it this late in the year meant that I wasn't over optimistic of stringing together many nights on the tops.
After the usual dreary drive across from Dorset, and a little exploratory reconnaissance, I loaded up at the car park west of Merrivale (GR 540 750)
A typically dreary start, with intermittent rain throughout the day.
A wander down to Vixen Tor (GR 541 742) for a looksee at just what "private land" offers.
Ringed by barbwire (satisfyingly broken down in places) it presumes to be a jealously guarded spot mimicking some frontline battle line.
Which for many it still remains - being an early sign of things to come.
I originally mentioned it back in 2007 and 17 years later it remains deeply symbolic of the expanding conflict between private ownership and public access.
And to be honest, really not that great a spot to safeguard from the marauding hordes of drooling ramblers milling around the spot.
Well not really.
But at least the welcoming sign made me smile - best of luck enforcing!
Welcome to Vixen Tor
Onwards to tick off Feather Tor (534 741) .....
..
Feather Tor
....and its view onto Heckwood Tor (537 738) the next waypoint .....
Heckwood Tor
....where there was a suitably atmospheric glimpse of Great Mis Tor in the distance, a favourite overnight spot of mine with panoramic views down to the sea beyond Plymouth.
The leat and cross discovered along the way made a pleasant photo opportunity, initially suggesting a future wildcamping spot for a long hot sunny day. But it quickly became clear that this was a focal point for walkers in the area. Quickly crossed off my list - I prefer more solitary resting spots.
Pew TorLabels: dartmoor, Fitness, National Park, right to roam, vixen tor, wild camping
Vixen Tor - A Small Victory?
It was nearly a year ago, back in April 2008, when I last mentioned the access fight over Dartmoor's Vixen Tor.
News comes from Grough that Devon County Council have agreed that two routes to the Tor should become public rights of way (with a possible Appeal stage to go)
A small step forward. But an important one in such a long drawn out access rights campaign.
Wednesday, April 30
Vixen Tor - Action Update
I've previously written about the background to the continued abysmal access situation for Vixen Tor on Dartmoor, despite many efforts to get it resolved amicably.
News comes via the ever excellent Grough website that 200+ people attended a rally this weekend to demand access. A timely demonstration of support for a recent application to the County Council for Rights of Way to be established across the land.
An address from Ramblers’ Association chairman Kate Ashbrook underlines the seriousness of the backing this issue has.
Some kind soul has posted full contact details of the landowner.
I'd like to bet their phone's going to be busy at some inconvenient time or other. But perhaps this will just push the farmer concerned further into the bunker mentality that seems to have been so evident to date?
So perhaps not such a good idea, despite the obvious temptation?
Thursday, February 7
aRoundabout - outdoor news and views (Feb 7)
Unbowed by a backlash of utter indifferance, here's another weekly round-up for your entertainment.
New sites to check out?
Seb Green was 15 when as a result of his involvement in a boat theft he ended up stuck in mud in Fleet Lagoon late at night. Subsequently rescued (and charged) in the years since he's regretted his actions and on the 1st of February he started his walk around the coast of mainland UK to raise cash for charity to make amends to the local community.
The 18-year-old will spend nearly a year walking 5,821 miles with his border collie dog, Flash, camping as he goes. More details on his website
Outdoor News
That's the way to do it.........
In contrast to last week's report of ill prepared walkers and their involvement of various Mountain Rescue teams here's a happier report of a man showing real self reliance (thanks to Grough for this) Well done that man!
Wainwright Window Becomes Storm Victim
An appeal comes via the Online Fellwalking Club and The Wainwright Society to fund church repairs. Not normally something that would feature on here but the church in question is St. James in Buttermere. A small leaded window was battered by recent winter gales and is boarded up awaiting repair.
And the relevance?
Its the same window containing the memorial plaque to Wainwright, and that special view towards Haystacks. Target is around £1000 if you want to contribute.
News in March's Trail Magazine concerning the Vixen Tor campaign's new initiative based on the Highways Law (my background piece here) and a request for testimonials from anyone who can recall walking, climbing or just enjoying the site.
Whilst not of direct relevance to the E-Petition on the legal position of wildcamping in England & Wales (364 votes and building - is your name on it yet?) there are some useful lessons to be learnt from the campaign when looking at mounting and delivering change for outdoor access that relates to all of us. Whether we intend to use this spot or not.
And finally ......
Look to the skies. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Nope its Air Viagra.
An Israeli study of mountain climbers in Africa has identified a link between erectile dysfunction drugs and improved performance at high altitude. An active ingredient in the drugs helped climbers perform better where oxygen was at reduced levels. The study indicates this may be of assistance for jet fighter pilots.
Hopefully they will work out any unrequired side effects (Beware sudden ejections - lol) but maybe that explains the mass of Viagra spam targeted at us hardened outdoor types.
Meanwhile US scientists, not to be outdone, have built an adapted knee brace that generates energy from human movement ".....we can get as much as 13 watts from walking .. .... enough to power about 30 minutes of talk time on a typical mobile phone from just one minute of walking"
Great news for ubertechnowalkers. Possibly. But not looking too good for the ultralight brigade.Labels: blog media, dartmoor, Lake District, podcasts, vixen tor, Wales, YHA
Monday, August 13
Kinder Trespass person required - Apply Within. Vixen Tor a blight on CROW
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today? Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.
And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
All site material © John Hee - ask before you snatch
News comes from Grough that Devon County Council have agreed that two routes to the Tor should become public rights of way (with a possible Appeal stage to go)
A small step forward. But an important one in such a long drawn out access rights campaign.
Vixen Tor - Action Update
I've previously written about the background to the continued abysmal access situation for Vixen Tor on Dartmoor, despite many efforts to get it resolved amicably.
News comes via the ever excellent Grough website that 200+ people attended a rally this weekend to demand access. A timely demonstration of support for a recent application to the County Council for Rights of Way to be established across the land.
An address from Ramblers’ Association chairman Kate Ashbrook underlines the seriousness of the backing this issue has.
Some kind soul has posted full contact details of the landowner.
I'd like to bet their phone's going to be busy at some inconvenient time or other. But perhaps this will just push the farmer concerned further into the bunker mentality that seems to have been so evident to date?
So perhaps not such a good idea, despite the obvious temptation?
Thursday, February 7
aRoundabout - outdoor news and views (Feb 7)
Unbowed by a backlash of utter indifferance, here's another weekly round-up for your entertainment.
New sites to check out?
Seb Green was 15 when as a result of his involvement in a boat theft he ended up stuck in mud in Fleet Lagoon late at night. Subsequently rescued (and charged) in the years since he's regretted his actions and on the 1st of February he started his walk around the coast of mainland UK to raise cash for charity to make amends to the local community.
The 18-year-old will spend nearly a year walking 5,821 miles with his border collie dog, Flash, camping as he goes. More details on his website
Outdoor News
That's the way to do it.........
In contrast to last week's report of ill prepared walkers and their involvement of various Mountain Rescue teams here's a happier report of a man showing real self reliance (thanks to Grough for this) Well done that man!
Wainwright Window Becomes Storm Victim
An appeal comes via the Online Fellwalking Club and The Wainwright Society to fund church repairs. Not normally something that would feature on here but the church in question is St. James in Buttermere. A small leaded window was battered by recent winter gales and is boarded up awaiting repair.
And the relevance?
Its the same window containing the memorial plaque to Wainwright, and that special view towards Haystacks. Target is around £1000 if you want to contribute.
News in March's Trail Magazine concerning the Vixen Tor campaign's new initiative based on the Highways Law (my background piece here) and a request for testimonials from anyone who can recall walking, climbing or just enjoying the site.
Whilst not of direct relevance to the E-Petition on the legal position of wildcamping in England & Wales (364 votes and building - is your name on it yet?) there are some useful lessons to be learnt from the campaign when looking at mounting and delivering change for outdoor access that relates to all of us. Whether we intend to use this spot or not.
And finally ......
Look to the skies. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Nope its Air Viagra.
An Israeli study of mountain climbers in Africa has identified a link between erectile dysfunction drugs and improved performance at high altitude. An active ingredient in the drugs helped climbers perform better where oxygen was at reduced levels. The study indicates this may be of assistance for jet fighter pilots.
Hopefully they will work out any unrequired side effects (Beware sudden ejections - lol) but maybe that explains the mass of Viagra spam targeted at us hardened outdoor types.
Meanwhile US scientists, not to be outdone, have built an adapted knee brace that generates energy from human movement ".....we can get as much as 13 watts from walking .. .... enough to power about 30 minutes of talk time on a typical mobile phone from just one minute of walking"
Great news for ubertechnowalkers. Possibly. But not looking too good for the ultralight brigade.Labels: blog media, dartmoor, Lake District, podcasts, vixen tor, Wales, YHA
Monday, August 13
Kinder Trespass person required - Apply Within. Vixen Tor a blight on CROW
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today? Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.
And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
All site material © John Hee - ask before you snatch
News comes via the ever excellent Grough website that 200+ people attended a rally this weekend to demand access. A timely demonstration of support for a recent application to the County Council for Rights of Way to be established across the land.
An address from Ramblers’ Association chairman Kate Ashbrook underlines the seriousness of the backing this issue has.
Some kind soul has posted full contact details of the landowner.
I'd like to bet their phone's going to be busy at some inconvenient time or other. But perhaps this will just push the farmer concerned further into the bunker mentality that seems to have been so evident to date?
So perhaps not such a good idea, despite the obvious temptation?
aRoundabout - outdoor news and views (Feb 7)
Unbowed by a backlash of utter indifferance, here's another weekly round-up for your entertainment.
New sites to check out?
Seb Green was 15 when as a result of his involvement in a boat theft he ended up stuck in mud in Fleet Lagoon late at night. Subsequently rescued (and charged) in the years since he's regretted his actions and on the 1st of February he started his walk around the coast of mainland UK to raise cash for charity to make amends to the local community.
The 18-year-old will spend nearly a year walking 5,821 miles with his border collie dog, Flash, camping as he goes. More details on his website
Outdoor News
That's the way to do it.........
In contrast to last week's report of ill prepared walkers and their involvement of various Mountain Rescue teams here's a happier report of a man showing real self reliance (thanks to Grough for this) Well done that man!
Wainwright Window Becomes Storm Victim
An appeal comes via the Online Fellwalking Club and The Wainwright Society to fund church repairs. Not normally something that would feature on here but the church in question is St. James in Buttermere. A small leaded window was battered by recent winter gales and is boarded up awaiting repair.
And the relevance?
Its the same window containing the memorial plaque to Wainwright, and that special view towards Haystacks. Target is around £1000 if you want to contribute.
News in March's Trail Magazine concerning the Vixen Tor campaign's new initiative based on the Highways Law (my background piece here) and a request for testimonials from anyone who can recall walking, climbing or just enjoying the site.
Whilst not of direct relevance to the E-Petition on the legal position of wildcamping in England & Wales (364 votes and building - is your name on it yet?) there are some useful lessons to be learnt from the campaign when looking at mounting and delivering change for outdoor access that relates to all of us. Whether we intend to use this spot or not.
And finally ......
Look to the skies. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Nope its Air Viagra.
An Israeli study of mountain climbers in Africa has identified a link between erectile dysfunction drugs and improved performance at high altitude. An active ingredient in the drugs helped climbers perform better where oxygen was at reduced levels. The study indicates this may be of assistance for jet fighter pilots.
Hopefully they will work out any unrequired side effects (Beware sudden ejections - lol) but maybe that explains the mass of Viagra spam targeted at us hardened outdoor types.
Meanwhile US scientists, not to be outdone, have built an adapted knee brace that generates energy from human movement ".....we can get as much as 13 watts from walking .. .... enough to power about 30 minutes of talk time on a typical mobile phone from just one minute of walking"
Great news for ubertechnowalkers. Possibly. But not looking too good for the ultralight brigade.Labels: blog media, dartmoor, Lake District, podcasts, vixen tor, Wales, YHA
Monday, August 13
Kinder Trespass person required - Apply Within. Vixen Tor a blight on CROW
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today? Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.
And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
All site material © John Hee - ask before you snatch
New sites to check out?
Seb Green was 15 when as a result of his involvement in a boat theft he ended up stuck in mud in Fleet Lagoon late at night. Subsequently rescued (and charged) in the years since he's regretted his actions and on the 1st of February he started his walk around the coast of mainland UK to raise cash for charity to make amends to the local community.
The 18-year-old will spend nearly a year walking 5,821 miles with his border collie dog, Flash, camping as he goes. More details on his website
Outdoor News
That's the way to do it.........
In contrast to last week's report of ill prepared walkers and their involvement of various Mountain Rescue teams here's a happier report of a man showing real self reliance (thanks to Grough for this) Well done that man!
Wainwright Window Becomes Storm Victim
An appeal comes via the Online Fellwalking Club and The Wainwright Society to fund church repairs. Not normally something that would feature on here but the church in question is St. James in Buttermere. A small leaded window was battered by recent winter gales and is boarded up awaiting repair.
And the relevance?
Its the same window containing the memorial plaque to Wainwright, and that special view towards Haystacks. Target is around £1000 if you want to contribute.
News in March's Trail Magazine concerning the Vixen Tor campaign's new initiative based on the Highways Law (my background piece here) and a request for testimonials from anyone who can recall walking, climbing or just enjoying the site.
Whilst not of direct relevance to the E-Petition on the legal position of wildcamping in England & Wales (364 votes and building - is your name on it yet?) there are some useful lessons to be learnt from the campaign when looking at mounting and delivering change for outdoor access that relates to all of us. Whether we intend to use this spot or not.
And finally ......
Look to the skies. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Nope its Air Viagra.
An Israeli study of mountain climbers in Africa has identified a link between erectile dysfunction drugs and improved performance at high altitude. An active ingredient in the drugs helped climbers perform better where oxygen was at reduced levels. The study indicates this may be of assistance for jet fighter pilots.
Hopefully they will work out any unrequired side effects (Beware sudden ejections - lol) but maybe that explains the mass of Viagra spam targeted at us hardened outdoor types.
Meanwhile US scientists, not to be outdone, have built an adapted knee brace that generates energy from human movement ".....we can get as much as 13 watts from walking .. .... enough to power about 30 minutes of talk time on a typical mobile phone from just one minute of walking"
Great news for ubertechnowalkers. Possibly. But not looking too good for the ultralight brigade.
Labels: blog media, dartmoor, Lake District, podcasts, vixen tor, Wales, YHA
Kinder Trespass person required - Apply Within. Vixen Tor a blight on CROW
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today? Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.
And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
Dartmoor has always been very welcoming to walkers. Indeed it's one of the few areas, particularly amongst UK National Parks that has a policy of positive encouragement for wild camping.
Open access is a well-established tradition, enshrined both in tradition and more recent statute.
On the remoter part of the high moor, about mid between Princetown and Tavistock lies an area of high ground topped by one of those natural features unique to Dartmoor. The place is named Vixen Tor, and for many years has been a favourite focal point both for walkers and climbers due to its impressive rock pile.
Local legend has it that a witch called Vixiana lived in a cave at the foot of the tor, alone but for her seething hatred of fellow man. Your typical witch I guess. Her speciality was to lure passers-by to their deaths, sucked down into the deep Dartmoor bogs. And by crikey they can be deep.
As is the way of these things, she eventually met her own demise in the self same way following the arrival of a local man, endowed with a little piskie magic of his own.
But some say Vixiana has managed to finally clamber out of her black bog bound grave and is once more involved herself in the affairs of travellers who visit this area.
In 2003 a year a local farmer, a year after buying a piece of land including the Tor, closed the area to public access. The reason given was that "on the advice of her solicitors who fear she may be sued by climbers or walkers if they should fall from the rock. This despite there being no legal precedent anywhere in the UK of such an occurrence. Thus bringing to an end 30 years of de facto public right of way (probably over 100 years)"
Unsurprisingly this action did not sit well with a number of local and national organisations, including Dartmoor National Park Authority (DNPA), the Ramblers Association and The British Mountaineering Council (BMC).
Informal and formal steps were taken over the ensuing years. And as feelings became heated once more the sight of mass trespass, an approach which many of us probably thought only of historic interest post the renown Kinder Trespass in 1932 was once again happening. Regularly.
Mediation seemed to achieve little until in 2006 a breakthrough was announced when the landowner finally overcome their concern with the potential litigation risks and kindly offered to offer a ten year access period for the mere pittance of £380,000.
Yes that’s right. £38,000 per annum, or approx £3.50 per visitor based on one commentator’s calculations. To visit the top of a hill. Bargain.
Needless to say the offer was a little over the DNPA figure of £1,500 p.a. and around about there the whole process, already littered with legal action and increasingly bad feeling, ground to an interminable halt.
Enter stage left. A Channel 5 TV programme mid 2006. "At War With Next Door" produced a former Bosnia peace negotiator Colonel Bob Stewart experienced in finding solutions for difficult and intractable real life situations, "to knock heads together and find solutions"
On the plus side there was public access on the day filming took place. But it dissolved into farce bordering on the dangerous as allegedly "…security guards, drafted in for the day by the owners, were told to move people off the property. The owners had agreed to a 11am - 4pm timescale for the Open Day. The climbers were told to come down immediately and when they asked if they could complete their route, apparently one of the landowners was heard to ask if the security men could pull them down. The climbers were subsequently forced to retreat, after having to leave gear in place and very upset at the aggressive attitude they had encountered" (source)
And the situation today?
Little progress from the DNPA who recognise they are flogging a dead horse, potentially eating up legal costs in the face of landowner intransigence. Some positive activity on the part of the BMC digging in for the long haul and no stranger to this type of scenario. And a pressure group who despite good intentions seems to have very little activity in the public forum.
And as for the farmer concerned? Well you would have thought their original heartfelt worries over the potential legal matters and costs would have mellowed as other pointless legal activity took its place.
But sadly that seems not to be the case. Which really does beg the $64,000,000 question. Why was access removed, and what is the reason now?
Today Vixen Tor is still a no-go zone. Guerrilla incursions appear to occasionally take place on an individual initiative. But basically an impasse.
There’s a much more detailed analysis well worth reading through here.
With minutes of the actual DNPA meetings here and BMC news here.And of course the "Vixen Tor 4 All" pressure group itself. There's little apparent activity on it. But then again that may be due to the nature of the pressure groups approach. I wouldn't care to guess.
So what does this mean for us as users of the outdoors?
Is the "Get off my land" mentality something that can still continue in today’s apparently egalitarian social climate with increasingly widespread recreational demand.
And if the law and those that are interested in applying it cannot achieve a realistic recourse, what alternative action isvailable?
For once I don’t have any cocky answers. There’s too much bad blood already been split in this affair, and despite much web based research of my own little appears to have been achieved since 2006. But without some positive and co-ordinated pressure I’d suggest nothing much will change in the future?
If you are interested in further info try contacting the Vixen Tor 4 All website. But this is a situation screaming out for another Benny Rothman type of individual, but in tune with modern social mores perhaps. Or is that approach not part of modern society anymore.
The next UK Bloggers Meet is currently considering their next location, and Dartmoor was mentioned. I wonder how it would go down if a small group of net based communicators happened to say, turn up for a night’s camp, possibly bringing along some of our press and media contacts for a taste of what’s still possible in 21st Century Britain. Just thinking out loud of course. Hypothetically.
Naw. You're right. That would be just provocative action surely. After all we just sit and write geeky on-line diaries that no one will ever read or think about.
Don't we?
All site material © John Hee - ask before you snatch
